Public Domain Radio

I know almost all of those. You see how many versions were recorded by other artists.
Oh Susanna was first done in 1848!? wow. Twinkle Twinkle Little Star 1806! 

But what about the performances of those songs? They could be quite recently done. Doesn't the performance of the song come into play when figuring if it is in the public domain? I guess Artisan knows the best about this.

All published sheet music (music and lyrics) 1930 and prior is in the public domain in the U.S.

All specific performances (i.e., records) 1925 and prior are in the public domain.

Lots of music to choose from there.

Posted by: @mark

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But what about the performances of those songs? They could be quite recently done. Doesn't the performance of the song come into play when figuring if it is in the public domain? I guess Artisan knows the best about this.

He does know best on these matters. But just to clarify,  - for example", "La Bamba", "Midnight Special", "Putting on the Ritz" "Dream a Little Dream of Me" "Georgia on my Mind.".. Major hits later by Richie Valens, Ray Charles, Mama's and the Papa's, Credence Clearwater etc.. When they made those songs hits, none of them were ever their songs - they were only covers of the original, the original public domain songs - Those artist did not have to pay royalties to perform it, nor would you or I, -- They were never "their songs" or would ever be, it is their personal Performance of those songs that is copyrighted, not the Song itself. Anyone can legally do them without any kind of permission from anybody.

I had notice for a couple days my Zeno was still playing a bunch of songs I had removed entirely from the playlist! It was very frustrating because I wanted only the PD recreations and the vintage Commercials to be playing, but it kept airing a bunch of the other stuff too, even though I deleted them! .. couldn't figure out what was going on, I guess some kind of Zeno cache or something, but it finally cleared up and it seems to playing only the PD songs.
I don't know if anyone here has checked it out but I a added a few this more this week to the above playlist...

Scarborough Fair (1800s)
Maggie May (1800s)
I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My Sister Kate (1922)
Little Brown Jug (1869)
Beautiful Dreamer (1864)
Aba Daba Honeymoon (1914)
Little Bitty Pretty One (1957 PD)
Also re-did The Charleston (1923) into alternate version and added that but left my other version in the list too.

https://zeno.fm/player/public-domain-radio-420

I thought Little Brown Jug was a particularly fun song:

In Canada, if a musical performance was published (i.e., released on record) 1964 and prior, it is in the public domain.  So you don't pay performance royalties on it.  That's because performances were only copyrighted for 50 years prior to 2015 (when the rules changed to 70).

However, the actual song (i.e., coming from sheet music) may or may not be copyrighted.  In general, the music is copyrighted for a much longer period, at least in Canada.  For published works, it was life of all composers plus 50 years prior to 2022, when again, the laws were changed to life plus 70 years.  That means that if all the music composers for a song passed away 1971 or earlier, then the music is in the public domain.  If they didn't, then no matter what the performance copyright status, you have to pay music royalties.

That's why He's So Fine is in the public domain in Canada - both the performance (of the Chiffons) and the music is in the public domain (the latter because Ron Mack, the sole composer, passed away in 1963, the year the performance by the Chiffons was released).

It leads to some interesting issues.  For example, music composed by Jimi Hendrix is in the public domain in Canada.  That's because he passed away in 1970 (before the 1971 cutoff).  So you don't have to pay music royalties on, say, Purple Haze.  On the other hand, his rendition of that song was released in 1967 (after the 1964 cutoff), so you would have to pay performance royalties if you played that song on a licensed radio station in Canada.  It would be perfectly legal, however, to have your own band perform that song in public, or over the air.

That's wild. Canada's way of copyright appears much less confusing and straightforward, wish it was so in the US. 

Wouldn't it be easier just to copyright for the life of the artist? - but then you might have artist killing each other off to obtain rights! 

By the way above I posted Little Brown Jug saying I thought it was a fun song, which it is, but I had actually been thinking of Aba Daba Honeymoon (1914) and what I had intended to post, I had never known of it prior (unlike the fun Brown Jug and the Sister Kate Shimmy songs which are more well known and had been covered), But the "Aba Daba Honeymoon" about sweetheart monkeys in love in the Congo, I had never known of it before and do think it made fun little song too:

Was just messing about, wanted to try redoing 'House of the Rising Sun' as a kind of dance floor, new wave kind of thing.. but the idea evolved into mashup of multiple PD songs into... I wasn't really sure what I was trying to do - I was just playing really, kept randomly adding another PD song lyrics, and then another, and another, etc, finally concluding with an absolutely lovely version of 'Dream a Little Dream of Me',..

Then did the final generation which combined it all into a single smoothly transitioned multiple song 10 minute catchy house music thing .. then I listened to it as a whole for the first time and think it's pretty cool (there is a minor flaw spec about the middle of the track, I'll fix that later in Audacity or something - or maybe just leave it, not that big a deal).

The lyrics came from the original songs and in this sequence:

--The Midnight Special
--Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight
--Little Brown Jug
--I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My Sister Kate
--Doo Wack-a Doo
--Krooked King
--Dream a Little Dream of Me 

Yeah.. it's 10 minutes long, but it's a ride.. 

I know you all could care less about AI music, but I think this is the most beautiful rendition of "Danny Boy" I've ever heard... Of course there's been hundreds of covers of it and I've not heard them all, but I made this about a week ago and everytime I hear it play, I think: Damn that's good.

Danny Boy (1910)

That is good.  Thanks for that.

And this is precisely the danger of AI music, if it's not clearly identified (and you care).  Pretty soon the only way you're going to be able to guarantee human music is via a live performance.

I sympathize with real musicians objections about AI music entirely, but I also tend to believe it will pass. Although the use of AI created music is sure to continue to increase and be utilized just about everywhere from commercials, shows, movies, etc., I really don't believe it's going to have a major impact to the extent that artist fear it will.

It doesn't matter how good it sounds, AI can't emulate nor replace the real thing, the connection fans have with an artist or band. You can't associate with, nor admire an ai performer, nor go see them in concert, or watch or read interviews or stories of their antics, nothing.. There'll never be any legendary AI, or admiring fans.

It's simply a musical creation app, and anyone can create music now with no talent whatsoever, and until the grid fails that's the way it is now. But its only really people and their God given real talent that ride to the top, AI is no threat to real artist as far as I'm concerned, none whatsoever.

"Artificial music" has been going on at least since the 1970s. Synthesized music has been mainstream for decades and half of what you hear hasn't been "genuine" for quite some time with auto tune and lip syncing and so forth, it's been "fake music" for decades. Hell, even the Beatles, primarily studio tricks.

https://stream-177.zeno.fm/siph273feaovv? (direct link).

Anyway I've added proudly 20 more. Been trying to get as many PD songs before Suno goes the way of Udio where you can't even download your creations anymore. Anyway the complete list to date that's been uploaded to the playlist is 77 songs and growing:

Aba Daba Honeymoon — 1914

After You Get What You Want You Don't Want It — 1910

Ain’t Misbehavin’ — 1929

Alabama Jubilee — 1915

Alexander’s Ragtime Band — 1911

All Alone — 1924

Amazing Grace — 1779

Are You Half the Man Your Mother Thought You Were — c.1913

Are You Sleeping (Frère Jacques) — 18th century

Beautiful Dreamer — 1864

Body and Soul — 1930

Boléro — 1928

By the Light of the Silvery Moon — 1909

California, Here I Come — 1921

Camptown Races — 1850

Crazy Blues — 1920

Daisy Bell — 1892

Danny Boy — 1910

Darktown Strutters' Ball — 1910

Doodle Doo Doo — 1923

Doo Wack-a Doo — 1924

Down Hearted Blues — 1922

Dream a Little Dream of Me — 1931

Everybody Loves My Baby — 1924

Farmer in the Dell — 1820s

Frankie and Johnny — c.1904

Georgia on My Mind — 1930

Get Happy — 1930

Give My Regards to Broadway — 1904

Home on the Range — 1870s

House of the Rising Sun — traditional

I Don’t Care — 1920s

I Got Rhythm — 1930

I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day — 1863

I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My Sister Kate — 1922

In the Good Old Summertime — 1902

It Had to Be You — 1924

Itsy Bitsy Spider — early 20th century

I’m Always Chasing Rainbows — 1917

Krooked Blues — 1924

La Bamba — 19th century

La Paloma (The Dove) — 1860s

Lazy — 1924

Let the Midnight Special Shine Your Light on Me — early 20th century

Little Bitty Pretty One — 1957 — Lyrics: Bobby Day

Little Brown Jug — 1869

London Bridge Is Falling Down — 1744

Maggie May — 1800s

Mashup: It Had to Be You / Ain’t Misbehavin’ — modern

McNamara’s Band — 1889

Oh! Susanna — 1848

On the Sunny Side of the Street — 1930

Poisoning Pigeons in the Park — 1959

Pop! Goes the Weasel — 1850s

Puttin’ on the Ritz — 1929

Red River Valley — 1879

Rockin’ Robin — 1958 — Lyrics: Leon René

Scarborough Fair — 1800s

Shine On, Harvest Moon — 1908

Silent Night — 1818

Singin’ in the Rain — 1929

Some of These Days — 1910

Swing Low, Sweet Chariot — 1860s

Take Me Out to the Ball Game — 1908

The Charleston — 1923

The Midnight Special — early 20th century

The Sheik of Araby — 1921

The Star-Spangled Banner — 1814

There’s a Long, Long Trail — 1913

There’ll Be a Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight — 1896

Till We Meet Again — 1918

Tiptoe Through the Tulips With Me — 1929

Toyland — 1903

Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star — 1806

When the Saints Go Marching In — early 20th century

Yankee Doodle Dandy — 1904

’S Wonderful — 1927

@richpowers You said quote "Artificial music" has been going on at least since the 1970s. Synthesized music has been mainstream for decades and half of what you hear hasn't been "genuine" for quite some time with auto tune and lip syncing and so forth, it's been "fake music" for decades. Hell, even the Beatles, primarily studio tricks".

You said it as good as I have been for 45 years since the beginning of the 80s. Auto tune came into being in 1996. That put the lid on the coffin as far as pop being real music goes. What you hear isn't a persons real voice let alone the music is all electronically generated. Not only that even live shows have backing tracks and auto tune ... fake and miming. But the Beatles? No, they played it on real instruments right till the end and used real orchestras. The Beach Boys did use some synth in later 60s and 70s stuff but it never replaced real drums and real instruments played by them with other musicians in the recording studio.
I don't listen to any synthesized pop which is all you hear on FM radio and to me it's as much music as a lawnmower. No song on my station, all 2500 tracks is synthesized. And the fact that even live shows including Taylor Swift is not all truly live, there's miming, even the singing can be through autotune that is an electronic reproduction of someones voice, doesn't seem to matter to millennials and gen Z that is not real. All the singers that make it to the top today like all the pop people is all synthesized. Real talent? And now AI is added in the mix. You want authentic music you have to live in the past. Maybe if I had not grown up in the time period I did I would think differently. Or maybe not.

So back to the subject, are all those songs what you are compiling for a playlist?
"Poisoning Pigeons In The Park"?? I have to listen to that one. Surprised Good Night Irene isn't on your list.

Posted by: @mark

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@g. But the Beatles? No, they played it on real instruments right till the end and used real orchestras. The Beach Boys did use some synth in later 60s and 70s stuff but it never replaced real drums and real instruments played by them with other musicians in the recording studio.....

So back to the subject, are all those songs what you are compiling for a playlist?
"Poisoning Pigeons In The Park"?? I have to listen to that one. Surprised Good Night Irene isn't on your list.

What I'm saying is the Beatles used a lot of altering tape speeds, overdubbing, changing some of their tones and then combining it all together again for the final. Very talented creativity with superb results - but not "real'.

I'm compiling public domain songs (ie: royalty free) and turning them into modern manifestations of what I personally think is entertaining and listenable music, and a lot of them are already familiar in the recognition of their verses, which just kind of ties it all together.

I don't really know what I'm doing. For whatever the reason I enjoy doing it, but the core of the whole idea is eliminating any responsibility in regard to royalties of public performance. In other words, a Part 15 station without perpetual payments to BMI, ASCAP, and I forget who the other one. I just trying to create a music library that sounds good with the AI tools currently so readily available.

I guess.

Oh, Good Night Irene.  If it's PD then that'll be my next song!