KDX Radio in the center of North America is unable to operate because Winamp crashes after about 1-minute of running. Cause uncertain.
KDX Radio in the center of North America is unable to operate because Winamp crashes after about 1-minute of running. Cause uncertain.
The latest version is 6.2 and no newer version is available.
Recent software changes:
Tuesday a couple of Windows Updates were installed;
Wednesday system booted up and Winamp streamed KDX all day without fail;
Wednesday evening added NoScript App to Firefox Browser, was unable after that to update our website at KDXradio.com, but RFB suggested a fix which made it possible to update the website;
Wednesday evening an update to Firefox was installed;
Wednesday evening an update to Thunderbird Email program was installed;
Thursday morning bootup fine Winamp run for 2-hours in non-stream mode;
KDX began a test stream during which to test the Flash Player access from our website but No Script was not allowing Flash Player;
Attempted to find a setting within No Script that would alleviate the Flash Player problem but then Winamp crashed;
From that time on every attempt to restart Winamp ended in a crash.
Attempted Fixes:
Did Registry Cleanup…Winamp crashed;
Disabled NoScript and restarted Firefox…Winamp crashed;
Turned Firefox off… Winamp crashed;
Rebooted…Winamp crashed;
We may resort to setting the computer back in time before all these updates, but does anyone have other suggestions?
More Specific Fact
The Winamp crash does not occur before connecting the stream to Shoutcast Directory.
Upon pressing CONNECT on the SC DPS Plugin the server window shows that Shoutcast.com is connected, then a few seconds later Winamp crashes.
As far as I know there is no way to run the SC Server without also connecting to the SC Directory.
It may possibly be true that non of our recent updates are causing this problem. It may be that the signal coming back from the Shoutcast Directory is playing a part in causing the crash. Or a combination of several events……
KDX is out of the game for now. One day after the National EAS Test.
Ugly wind storm outside.
SC
By SC Directory your meaning yp touch which is the listing to the Shoutcast station directory.
Actually you can run the DNAS without the yp touch. Only problem with that is your station wont show up on the Shoutcast directory. But the server will still run and people can still connect to listen.
Its something else going on in there. The no script plug in for the browser won’t have anything to do with this particular problem. The no script plug in is a browser plug in and does not run inside anything else but the browser and only when the browser is running. The no script does not affect anything outside of the browser even if the browser is reduced to the task bar.
Are you still running that DNAS locally? Although that in of itself isn’t any concern except that the world out there tunes directly to your IP address (not very good idea), the no script has no effect on the locally ran DNAS or DSP or Winamp application at all.
The no script does not change anything in your registry regarding other programs or anything else. It is merely a browser application that runs only when the browser is running and only works inside the browser protecting you from any potential incoming threats when requesting data (going to a web site) from a web server.
Something else is going on there.
Are you running any kind of DSP stacker? Recently you mentioned installing the Stereo Tool DSP plug in. Winamp cannot run more than one DSP plug in at a time without using a DSP plug in stacker. These can be very picky in which order the DSP’s are activated.
And depending on what kind of DSP plug in’s you have in the stacker, the stacker can cause the Winamp to crash as well.
I would begin by turning off the stacker. Load the shoutcast DSP encoder and then run as usual, see if Winamp crashes then. After that test and if Winamp continues to run, unload the shoutcast DSP and activate the Stereo Tool plug in only. Run Winamp and test. If successful, unload the Stereo Tool plug in and then re-load the DSP stacker plug in. Go into the stacker configuration and place the shoutcast DSP first in the list. Activate the shoutcast DSP plug in ONLY in the stacker. Run Winamp and connect to your server. Test…see if it crashes. If successful, then load the Stereo Tool DSP in the stacker while keeping the shoutcast DSP encoder active in the stacker. Run Winamp and test. If it stays alive, your ok and the problem was the order in which the DSP stacker had things set up. If it does crash, the problem could be the stacker itself. Try a different DSP stacker plug in.
The stacker plug in I have on my Winamp on the production PC is the DSP Stacker V1.6 made by Spacialaudio and can be found on the Winamp plug in’s site.
RFB
Shooting at Trouble
Been running Winamp programming on AM, FM & SW without streaming, but am getting ready to try system tests.
I really appreciate the explanation about No Script, except that I think it was blocking my Flash Player, I notice it disallows Adobe Flash, and I think the Flash Player needs Adobe Flash to run. But (I think) that’s another issue for now.
Back to Winamp. The test I am setup for now is that I have turned off the SC DPS Encoder and switched to the SAM Encoder Plugin to make a comparison.
Yes I have a stacker, Multiple DSP v1.6, which has worked for several years and worked yesterday. I’ve had Stereotool all that time as well.
Right now there is no logical theory in my mind about what changed since yesterday when Winamp worked normally, which is why I made a list of known updates and changes just in case one of them is the cause.
I will try the switching around suggested by RFB.
Here goes.
SAM Encoder
I am surprised you were not using the SAM encoder anyway! It is a light year leap ahead of the old shoutcast DSP. And has a better interface and a ton more encoding options.
As to the no script and the flash/adobe stuff, just follow the instructions I gave to allow it to pass those embedded applications on your website. Again all of that has nothing to do with this new Winamp issue.
Go through the steps I mentioned in my previous post. Process of elimination is a step by step procedure and always finds the problem.
One other question…when was the last time you updated Winamp…and if so…why?
Most of the updates as of lately to Winamp only add more clutter with features that really do not have any benefit to the particular use of Winamp in your case. I am still running 5.62 and never had any reason to update it for all the irrelevant additions they made to the player..such as adding that stupid little browser that runs inside winamp. Although it is a small browser, the no script you added yesterday will not affect it nor affect Winamp itself. However all the updating to Winamp contains junk that is useless for the application of streaming.
RFB
Breathing Easier
SAM Encoder is holding steady, the stream is running, the SC Directory is connected, and the Flash Player works to monitor the station.
On your other points, I also have Winamp V 5,62 which is actually the latest version, but I have it because I always trusted the notion that one should have the latest update of everything, but that’;s not always true.
I have the new V2 version of SC DSP Encoder set for Legacy Mode, and it has worked for a while, but the original reason I installed it was to have AAC streaming because of the better quality sound, but I turned it off after noticing there’s not yet a big AAC audience, so now I don’t need that version of the encoder.
Interestingly, the reason I got the SAM Encoder was to provide a 16kbps stream for the thousands of dialup users in the world, but they didn’t show up in droves either, because I think dialup is too limited to bother with any kind of audio streaming.
Anyway, RFB has helped another member keep his balance and now I can keep my sanity and keep setting the trash can upright when it blows over in the wind.
Updates
Sounds like it will settle down and behave itself. And yes, updates are not always necessary depending on what the update is, what it is for and what changes it will do to your system.
The old saying…if it ain’t broke..don’t fix it!
Or..if it works…don’t un-fix it!
Keep us posted as there could be other operators out there that may run into this weird problem you just experienced.
The one thing about this site is that it is a gold mine of end user information. There is no better resource for tips and suggestions to just about anything..even if it has nothing to do with 100mW or 250uV @ 3 meters!
RFB
Low Bit Rate Streaming
“Interestingly, the reason I got the SAM Encoder was to provide a 16kbps stream for the thousands of dialup users in the world, but they didn’t show up in droves either, because I think dialup is too limited to bother with any kind of audio streaming.”
This is where the AAC comes in handy, for the dialups and iMobile devices.
It is pointless to use AAC for streaming bitrates above 48kps. AAC was designed specifically for HQ audio delivery over low bitrate streams. I see stations out there AAC’ing at 92 or 128 and even at 320, which if they new any better and actually knew what they were doing, there is no added benefit to the stream at all at those high bitrates. Basically they are wasting the purpose of the AAC completely and the only benefit to them is their listing showing AAC as the stream type, but absolutely no benefit or improvement to the audio quality at all.
RFB
things’ll get better
Carl i hope thing will get better and you’ll get thing back the way they were.
Bentley
Sailing Smooth
Thank you ABMedia1 for your good wishes.
Yes, with so much help from RFB the confusion is cleared up and KDX is running like a Swiss clock.
Winamp
I had the same problem. ShoutCast Plugin always crashed my winamp. I’ve been using the SAM Encoder since I started the official stream.
not the only one with problem
Carl looks like your not the only one who is having problems looks like a lot of people is having problems with SAM encoder and winamp.
Sam works hard so you don’t have to
I like the Sam Broadcaster and yes, the encoders are very reliable. I have basically given up on Winamp.
Question For rock95seven
Really? What Automation Playout Software do you use? i would like to know… i will greatly appreciate it
SAM IS DA MAN!
“What Automation Playout Software do you use?”
Submitted by rock95seven on November 10, 2011 – 16:57.
I like the Sam Broadcaster and yes, the encoders are very reliable. I have basically given up on Winamp.
He is using SAM Broadcaster. A very excellent automation solution…2nd only to Maestro now named something else, which is WAY too expensive for the pocketbooks that frequent this site.
Unless you got about 10+ grand lying around!
RFB
Sam 4 (v 4.2.2)
I was merely making a statement that i liked Sam Broadcaster 4 over Winamp. I used Winamp for years without much trouble. Before my Dell computer died on me i used Winamp for listening to streaming radio. But i had always used older versions. I was just luck enough to be in the right place at the right time when a friend was throwing out some old software on cd roms. One of those cd’s was Sam Broadcaster 4. I use this for unattended broadcasts, while doing live radio i use zararadio just because it is easier cue another audio file in a hurry. Sorry for the confusion guys. As for Carl’s dilemma, i have no clue what could be causing it to crash.
Best of luck Carl.
Clearing It Up
Thanks for clarifying that. It did sound like you were using the SAM.
The only time I use Winamp is for doing live shows simply because there is no need to “cue” files. Simply load them and then hit play.
If a file has a bit of a gap in the start or end, I take the time to edit the silence out, leaving at most 1/2 second, which is more than adequate at the start or end of a sound file.
Plus the fact that SAM has the inherent delay if you ran line through it. But even that can be minimized but still not like line level live.
Zara is good there is no question about that. But lacks functionality for web site integration such as generating templates for program information to display on the website. Which my webmaster has cleverly designed some side applications that also allow the SAM to run from a simple text file that is used as a template to generate that incredibly stupid PAL script that SAM needs to know what it is doing for breaking away to local breaks on the AM/FM in my SAM2 system, as well as receive external contact closure via a com port for triggering in/out of live feeds or other net cue triggering.
RFB
Winamp And Sam…Sam And Winamp
I think you got Carl’s issue in reverse, but his Winamp was crashing with the shoutcast DSP encoder.
Very unusual considering it was working fine.
But I have heard of others with issues using Winamp and the SAM encoder plug in. I can say with assurance that ever since 2002 when I got the SAM encoder plug in, it has never given me any trouble even through the updates of Winamp since that time up to Winamp 5.62.
I do not use Winamp as my program sourcing. I use SAM Broadcaster 4.2 and it has been nothing but a blessing since it fired up for the first time. Some dedicated Winamp users call it an overblown Winamp playlist organizer.
I call it a time saver with features Winamp cannot possibly achieve even with a DSP stacker and a load of plug in’s.
And its price tag is not too unreasonable for a semi-automation piece of software. And there is Zara and a few other less loaded with features automation programs out there to choose from.
Heck if Winamp could do what SAM does, I would go with the free option too! But free doesn’t always address needed functionality. And free isn’t always a good thing either.
As the old saying goes…you get what you paid for.
RFB
Status at Sundown
Since switching to SAM Encoder Plugin streaming with Winamp as suggested by RFB everything is running very well here at KDX.
It is now in my serious thoughts to maybe get a SAM BROADCASTER AUTOMATION PACKAGE after hearing the high praise and vivid description from RFB about how much more specific it is for streaming.
After all, as Winamp has evolved and is still getting more complex, it does many other things that have nothing to do with streaming. That means that streaming is only an afterthought for Winamp. SAM BROACASTER is entirely made for streaming and nothing else, which is probably a good reason to trust it.
Maybe I’ll flip a coin.
Keep In Mind…
Keep in Mind that SAM is not automation.
It takes scripts to get it to do what you want.
SAM Can
“Keep in Mind that SAM is not automation.
It takes scripts to get it to do what you want.”
Umm..I think you will find that any automation, or semi automation software requires a “script”, be it a PAL script like SAM, or a .LOG script file generated by a traffic system for Maestro, and similar.
There is no automation program that just automatically knows what it needs to do. Maestro for example, not only needs a program log to know what is what, but it also needs external contact closure to fire off specific functions such as station ID carts, station liner carts, voice-over liner carts, commercial breaks etc, and then it has to have instructions on what to do after.
Put in a nutshell, there is no incredibly smart fully self instructing automation program. Each one, no matter how elaborate or expensive or fancy, requires something or someone to tell it what to do.
The meaning of automation for radio or television program delivery is relieving the task of all those neat things that used to be done in the typical radio and television control rooms. Flipping and cuing records, loading carts into the decks, checking off on the program log as things air, catching news or other feeds and recording them and placing them, and most of all, doing all of these things in a precise and timely manner.
SAM is no different and it can run things with all the above functionality, minus the recording of feeds, by merely loading up the queue list with 24 or 48 hours worth of programs. It works as I am doing that this very moment and have been since I first fired up SAM.
The big problem with SAM is that it does not synchronize the players with the real time clock, even tho those players have pitch and tempo adjustment which could be clocked to the real time clock and slowly adjusted over a program’s length to “fit” within an hour, or two or whatever.
The PAL script does not know anything but two specific functions really, start something and start something else at specific times you enter. Other than that, it is just as dumb as any automation program out there. Even the PAL script cannot accurately join, or exit a live feed precisely on time without either cutting off the end of a program, or joining a feed late. And the main reason for that is SAM by itself has no external triggering capability for network cue signals. I had to have my webmaster and software coding expert write a special program that runs in the background on the pc that runs my SAM’s to give them this external triggering ability via an unused com port.
For the basic functions of the majority of Part 15 stations, the SAM or Zara and others are very good choices. I use SAM because of its internal capability of web site integration. And I also like its ability to stack DSP plug in’s all on its own, as well as the included codec packs which does also include AAC+.
But for SAM to run by itself with the queue filled with 24 or 48 hours worth of stuff, all you have to do is simply save that list as an m3u, common playlist file, and have the event scheduler call up that file every 24 or 48 hours and wala, walk away and let it do its thing. Check it every so often for timing since it runs “free wheeling” and not referencing the real time clock. Even with PAL scripting, your going to not be on time with the real time clock because PAL scripts do not adjust the player’s tempo or speed over time to slowly compensate over that time frame so that everything matches up precisely to the time clock.
The only way your going to get that kind of precision is with the very expensive automation programs like that of Maestro.
So in a nutshell, do not be scared off by the boogie man’s name of PAL and miss out on the vast improvement of running basic playlists. At the least in SAM, and the use of its event scheduler, you do not have to manually load that 24 hour play list at all. Just update it with new shows and that can be done outside of SAM..say in Winamp etc.
I’ve been using it for over 3 years now and it is still doing its job nicely. Sure I added a few external programs to help it do better things, but by itself it cannot be beat for its flexibility, its features and web site integration capabilities. It beats anything else I have tried hands down.
In other words, I found ways to “un-overtake” the plumbing so the drain never stops up.
RFB
Test Drive
SAM Broadcaster is available for a free limited time demo, so I am going to drive it around the block and if I learn anything that hasn’t already been said I’ll come here and blab about it.
I don’t know why I need it or if I need it, but it must be good, otherwise RFB would be content with Winamp.
Scripts do not bother me. I enjoy learning new scripting languages. I used to sit and write BASIC for Commodore 64, and I miss it.
My brain is a blank slate, so this could be fun.
Example
Let me give an example of just how good SAM is.
On my station’s website, and on the top of every page, are two boxes. One contains the current program playing information (left) and the other one (right) displays the next two upcoming programs including their TTA times.
Another excellent feature, and this one is probably my favorite, is my station’s program schedule page. It is REAL TIME, meaning that it is not just a static display of programs. It moves up the list of programs as programs air as well as show the TTA times (Time To Air). Now here is the really neat thing. If I change something in the queue list, say change a program by merely inserting it from the library list containing all the stations program material, and remove what I do not want, I hit “generate” and wala, that program schedule instantly changes on the website to reflect the changes I just made to the queue list!
Hows that for feature eh!
Try that in Winamp! Or Zara for that matter. I am not knocking those other software programs, but I am just giving an example of what SAM can do, given a little bit of creativity and overcoming little obstacles to have certain functions performed. And the neat part of it all, is that the only PAL script on the thing is the created PAL from the event scheduler to load the daily program list into the queue once every 24 hours.
Last Christmas I loaded up a queue playlist that spanned a 4 day period. I did not have to even go into the studio that entire holiday. The station did in fact run itself. And to keep with the time clock, I merely calculated for 4 days time drift based on previous observation and loaded the playlist with little extra “fill in” liners and things.
Worked beautifully, and still does! 🙂
RFB
Test Drive
“SAM Broadcaster is available for a free limited time demo, so I am going to drive it around the block”
Trust me, it will be like slipping yourself into a brand new luxury Cadillac after driving that old horse drawn buggy. And the trial time is 14 days. Plenty of time to become familiar with that Cadillac!
Spacialaudio also has a payment plan you can take advantage of to purchase it. Can’t fork out the whole cost at once, then spread them out over the 4 month period and its all yours.
RFB
Recommending RIVENDELL here:
Recommending RIVENDELL here: Open source, Linux-based radio automation with the streaming built right into it.
Massive support from a large community of users, fast turnaround on bug squashes, drop-dead stable operation with practically no reboots (one station in Rhode Island has not had to reboot for three years).
And FREE.
Rivendell is available as source code if you want to get deep in the workings. Most folks would be better off to download and install the “appliance disk”, which installs both the Linux operating system and the Rivendell suite with almost no intervention from you. Put it on a $150 Craigslist hand-me-down Dell and hit the air tomorrow morning.
Google “Rivendell Audio”.
Clarification About HTML
Earlier I said I write my webpage with HTML Code, which is true, but the way I get that done is with a Mozilla package called Kompozer
http://kompozer.net/
I don’t think Kompozer is supported anymore, so these newer suggestions are coming at the right time.
Thanks for the mention of RIVENDELL, another one I had not heard of which I will check out.
Good Choice
Rivendell is a great choice….if your running Linux OS.
RFB
Set Back
Last night I installed the free trial edition of SAM Broadcaster.
This morning I turned it on to explore it, but the window said my free license had expired.
The whole thing has been moved way to the end of my to do list.
So Soon?
“Last night I installed the free trial edition of SAM Broadcaster.
This morning I turned it on to explore it, but the window said my free license had expired.”
So soon? Very strange! That trial time used to be 14 days when I was checking SAM out for the first time. However that was 3 years ago so they must have changed that.
There is no way to fully explore SAM and its features in a span of just one overnight.
Well that’s a shame because SAM is an excellent program and you’re going to miss out on the discovery of just how powerful and flexible it is.
Maybe check your system’s clock and see if it somehow lost its time marbles.
Well there is always Zara and a variety of other similar programs to choose from.
RFB
Message Sent
I took it upon myself to send Spacial a nice but firm email regarding this incredibly stupid short trial period you just experienced.
I also explained to them that it is impossible for anyone to try a program when they can’t even use it one time after installing it the night before and its expired the next morning!
I also mentioned the fact that it was recommended by a SAM owner in a large public community radio forum and that the end result of such a ridiculous short trial period may have just ruined a potential sale..and no telling how many others.
Oh well, their loss..isn’t it.
I still highly recommend it. But I do not stand behind this incredibly ridiculous short trial period of an overnight!
RFB
How Good
That was a good thing for you to do. I was just sitting here thinking about previous experience with the SAM people back when I got the SAM Encoder Plugin. There were some complicated confusions, which I might blather about on the LPH, but in a friendly way.
All I know is that the computer clock has today’s date and time, so it would be difficult to be sure about a reason for the expired trial.
Of course no one could evaluate the program in one overnight.
Since Winamp is still running I can fly on the existing fuel tank and give SAM another chance later.
Unexpected
I can say this for sure, that no time to try it once trial time period is useless, and I made that point very clear in the message I sent to them.
Let’s see what their response is on the support ticket. If necessary I will carry it over into their own forum as I have a membership there and get an explanation to this nonsense.
RFB
Rivendell Reply
>From RFB, November 12, 2011
>Rivendell is a great choice….if your running Linux OS.
Agreed. But what makes it a better choice is that Linux itself is well hidden. You only have to address the OS if you want to or need to make adjustments to the configuration. When Rivendell runs, it does so as a *broadcast appliance*; your computer becomes a dedicated device where you click a button here, and sound comes out over there.
While helpful to have a little Linux knowledge, one does not need to know the operating system to run Rivendell, much like not needing to understand internal combustion to ride a bus to work. Two radio networks based in Washington DC use Rivendell to drive their entire houses. Interns and college radio grads can run it after two hours’ training. Hell, they can even own their own copy, with the author’s blessings!
Pluses: it also comes with multiple “instant playback” button panels; a free rudimentary music scheduler, and a module called “RD Catch” which acts as an hourly logger, skimmer, feed capture recorder or whatever else you can think of.
The Rivendell website has a free downloadable “appliance disc” that does the whole shmear: installs Linux, checks your hardware, installs Rivendell and just runs. Its not a time-limited demo — its the full suite. Know that it DOES WIPE AND OVERWRITE YOUR HARD DRIVE, so if you want to try it, put it on virgin iron or a PC from the boneyard; DO NOT put it on a machine you already have dedicated to another purpose.
See the basics at: http://rivendellaudio.org/
Download the appliance disc at: http://paravelsystems.com/appliance.html
It may not be for everyone, but its worth a look.
-Alan Peterson
(full disclosure: I use RD daily at my day job and am gearing up to use it on my home Part 15’er)
Rivendell Followup
RollingValleyRadio your contribution has our interest. Rivendell sounds like a choice worth investigating.
Recently we have become informed that streaming from our home IP address opens us to easy security intrusions. I add my own projection to this warning, as I leap to the probability that part of the insecurity relates to being a Windows XP OS.
Does home streaming with Linux OS and Rivendell increase the security?
While running with Linux/Rivendell, can other applications be run from the same system (as they now can with XP) such as Audacity audio editing and Firefox browser?
Thank you for the good information.
Regarding Security and Streaming From Home
I’m still running my TEST WEBSITE from home. The logs reflect mostly hits from “bots” and a few attempted hacks. But, so far the security features supplied by the Abyss server program have held the line.
I’ve also had two streams running from home for a few years and haven’t had any problems I’m aware of. They are MRAM NOAA WEATHER and MRAM 1500.
Some would say ignorance is bliss…
Rivendell Followup, Cont’d.
Carl, I will have an answer to your security concerns shortly from the RD Users Forum. As I am not a streaming expert myself, I cannot answer you accurately so I will toss it out to the brain trust and get back to you.
As for running other apps while Rivendell is underway: yes it is possible, if you are limited to a single computer to accomplish your studio tasks. At my day job, our RD machines are mission-critical (we are providing playback to hundreds of affiliates) so we dedicate a Rivendell computer solely to playout. Production and browsing are done on a separate machine so as not to endanger our playback, and edited audio is sent to the playout machine via the network.
There is a Rivendell wiki that might provide good advice:
http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/Main_Page
-AP
Home Web Activity
Thank you for your report MRAM.
Your home website is a very important exhibit for those looking for alternative ways of doing things. I intend to follow the example by starting a home site and the ultimate question will come to whether it can displace the paid website. In the name of austerity.
Hope you keep your home site open MRAM. It’s a beacon for D.I.Y.
Die Hard…
Yes, like my AM, I’ll keep it running even if I’m the only one checking it. It’s simply interersting.
The old PC running the website locks up once in a while. Usually from power glitches. I don’t have enough UPS’s to go around.
It’s a Compaq Ipaq, 500 mHz processor with 128 meg RAM. And, the drive is failing but hey-it’s still up.