I say off topic because im sure this has nothing to do with part 15.
Can anyone tell me where the time signal on 610 am ? comes from?
I say off topic because im sure this has nothing to do with part 15.
Can anyone tell me where the time signal on 610 am ? comes from?
I have heard this station for years and i tried to google the station but turned up nothing.
Sounds like WWV but i dont recall them having a transmitter on the bcb.
Ive started dx’ing the am bcb again using my car stereo as the interference in my house makes for bad reception on any band.
Any ideas?
Mystery Guest – Sign In
Can you give us any info as to what info is heard? Any sort of Morse code or voice ID? English speaking? Tone ticks for seconds? Any sort of digital sounding coded info?
Sounds just like WWV
Ticks just like WWV , occasional ID but i can never get the call sign.
The ID is in English, kind of sounds Canadian.
This station has been around for years, i’m 42 and i can remember hearing this station as a kid. I was in Cleveland, Ohio the first time i heard this station and it was the same then as it is now.
The signal is just strong enough to be heard but never dominates the AM BCB band like so many of the high powered station on the band.
I have never heard any atmospheric reports like you do with WWV shortwave. This station has always been a mystery to me and after hearing it again has my interest.
Any ideas? MRAM maybe you can hear it from your location too?
Mystery time signal
I can’t hear it here since the local WTVN is on 610 kHz and swamps the frequency and can be heard over most of Ohio. I am surprised you could hear the mystery station in Cleveland with WTVN on the air.
I know of no domestic time signals on AM BCB but perhaps some foreign station is what you are hearing.
Try to get the ID if possible. Another thought is that you are hearing an image signal, perhaps from an outer marker station for an airport. Any airports nearby? Even without a nearby airport, there are nav. beacons in surprising places. I heard one loud and clear in Portland, Ind. while I was listening to an AM station. It apparently was an image. These stations usually transmit their ID (airport acronym) continuously in code rather than transmitting time signals.
The mystery continues…..
Neil
London, Corbin Airport
Is at least 1 1/2 miles from me to the south east.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/maverick390/IROCKmap.jpg
Not real sure if they have a beacon but if they do, wouldn’t the image be stronger ?
I would think it would be strong enough to copy word for word or tick for tock at 1 1/2 miles away.
I have to admit, my memory may not be as reliable as it should be.
Maybe it wasn’t Cleveland where I first heard this station but then again like the song goes “I’ve been everywhere ”
I have lived as far west as Hemet California, Pittsburgh Pa,
Cleveland Oh, Medina Oh, Cincinnati Oh, Harrison Oh and now Kentucky.
So good chance I have the actual location wrong where i first heard this mystery station, but one thing has remained constant for me.
Everywhere I have been , radio has always been there too. 🙂
Does a image have the same power as the original signal ?
At any rate, I will try again to copy the ID.
Mystery time station
Rock,
You wrote:
I have to admit, my memory may not be as reliable as it should be.
Maybe it wasn’t Cleveland where I first heard this station but then again like the song goes “I’ve been everywhere “
I know how that goes. Good data are expensive, bad data are even more expensive.
Does a image have the same power as the original signal ?
Not sure how to answer this other than to give a lecture about image signals. The receiver has a tuned front end which should attenuate the image frequency but, as is true of all filters, it is not perfect and some signal will get through.
Here’s what happens. Your receiver has a local oscillator and this frequency (LO) is mixed with what is coming in the antenna. The actual tuning on a superhet happens in the intermediate frequency (IF) amplifier after the frequency of the LO is set. Let’s take a typical example where the LO is 455 kHz above the signal frequency (FS), for example 610 kHz. The LO is at 610 kHz plus the IF frequency of 455 kHz which is 1065 kHz. What is intended to happen is that the 610 kHz mixes with 1065 kHz giving a signal at 455 kHz which the IF passes. But a signal, the image at 1520 kHz will also mix with the LO to produce a signal at 455 kHz which will get through the IF. This is the image frequency.
(Here’s the equation: FIMAGE = FS + 2xIF.)
A good receiver has a tuned front end which will greatly attenuate but not eliminate the image frequency. So the answer to your question Does a image have the same power as the original signal ? is no as seen by the IF amplifier; this signal will be attenuated when it reaches the IF stage, but it still can be strong enough to be heard.
This is a very brief view of the topic and I hope it prompts you to pursue the topic in greater detail by your readings. You appear to me to be a person who wants to dig in to understand radio theory and practice and who has already done so. Read more, ask more, experiment more, and continue to share on this board as you already have. We all gain by your posts.
Rock on!
Neil
Image This
Here is a link to a list of AIRPORT BEACONS. Perhaps one of these is either harmonically related or perhaps as Neil explained could be imaged to the BCB.
Know any pilots? They would have a book that would list beacons in the Cleveland area.
Mystery Time Station
Rock,
It doesn’t seem likely to be any of the standard time stations.
WWVB in Colorado transmits on 60 Hz.
WWV in Colorado transmits on 2.5 MHz, 5 MHz, 10 MHz, 15 MHz and 20 MHz.
CHU in Ottawa CN transmits on 3330, 7850, and 14 670 kHz.
Airport NDBs don’t send time signals, they just repetetively transmit their 3-letter identifier in morse code. London-Corbin doesn’t have an NDB transmitter. See: http://www.globalair.com/airport/london-corbin_arpt-magee_fld/LOZ.aspx#. That link does show other NDBs covering the area but the closest is 29 nm SW of London-Corbin.
Do you receive that signal on all your radios or is it just one in particular?
Three Radio’s Hear this
So far on my car stereo (factory) , my Durabrand AM/FM CD Boombox and a cheap cheap crank/battery operated pocket radio.
I have recorded a few minutes of the station for everyone to hear.
This is raw, i didn’t try to clean it up or anything.
Listen here http://radiodizzy.webs.com/mysterystation.mp3
Hopefully you can hear the cw tones among the salsa stations.
I was not able to hear this on the car stereo as well as i did on the other radios.
The tick tick sound was not as clear on this recording but i believe you can hear it. BTW in the car it was actually on 600 khz not 610 khz as i first thought.
A Possibility
According to a National Geospatial Intelligence Agency publication, BBC broadcasts time signals on some medium wave frequencies. These are shown in the publication at http://www.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/RNA/117chapter2.pdf, page 2-15.
603 kHz is one of the frequencies. The power is shown as only 2 kW. The document shows that they broadcast the time signals every hour from 0600 to 2200. I wonder if they transmit the time continuously during the hours when they don’t have regular programming. I couldn’t find a publication date for this document. Maybe it is outdated and maybe the power level is really a lot higher.
I never knew time signals were sent anywhere on the broadcast frequencies. I also never heard of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency!
NGIA? News to me too!
I have never heard of that organization either.
But if this is their radio station then that would explain why my digital car stereo had so much trouble hearing this station.
If they are on 603 kHz then the receiver would have a hard time pulling in the signal since there is no fine tune on digital car stereo’s.
Was anyone able to copy the Morse code ID on the mp3 i posted?
I can send Morse but since i don’t practice Morse code i cant tell you what is being said other than S.O.S. lol
If that short Morse code on the mp3 is the ID then that would possibly clear up a lot of questions concerning this station.
Inconclusive
I ran a denoiser on the MP3 to pull out the Morse code.
Right at the start it sounds like R R.
Starting at 01:04 the code sounds like S A.
Then at 02:19 it sounds like R R.
And again just before the end it’s R R.
Listen to this
denoised version.
You won’t hear much until you get the the Morse code.
I’ll fire up the BCB on the long wire and see what I can hear.
Mystery “Almost” Solved?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Time_signal_radio_stations
“RR” identifies “Radio Reloj” in Cuba. The “Almost” part of the mystery is that all the info I can find on the web shows the frequency is 570 kHz, not 600 or 610.
Some mysteries cant be solved on the net
Although the internet is full of all kinds of useful and not so useful information, the net can’t always give us the answers we want.
I would have to admit this one has me dumbfounded but PhilB and Marm both have offered some clues as to what this station could be.
It’s a good chance that even the BCB is not immune to the same mysterious signals often found on the shortwave bands.
This station has been around for years and now with all the technology we possess some things still fall in between the cracks.
I appreciate the help you all offered and perhaps we will stumble on the answers sooner or later. The fact that this station has been around for so long and that it is still operational gives me a ray of hope that someone out there knows more about this station.
DX?
I listened to 600 kHz last night and the only station I could hear is WSOM in Salem, Ohio. They are directional and I’m in the null so they are very weak.
I’m in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio which is about midway between Cleveland and Salem (30 miles either way).
There is a near zero beat from another signal but I can’t make out any audio other than WSOM.
Thats Odd
I guess not everyone can hear it.
If you have ever used online shortwave receivers like N2JEU’s from New York or the various radio’s online at Yahoo groups you can get a fair idea of how strange proper-gation can get. (had to use that word lol)
On most online receivers you can use the radio in nearly all the modes it has to offer. I frequent N2JEU’s site a lot and have compared his reception with my own.
Using 1 khz steps i was able to tune his radio from 600 to 603 khz and was not able to hear the mystery RR station from his radio.
I could hear it on my own at the same time though.
I have not tried any other online radio’s yet but if i do i will make it a point to pick radios that are east and west of me since i have already tried north and south.
Mine being south,N2JEU radio and MRAM’s reception reports are from the north even though they are in two entirely different parts of the north that’s still a good way to maybe narrow down the search.
Sort of a sloppy triangulation lol.
Thanks for your reception report MRAM.
Radio Reloj
Radio Reloj (if I spelled it correctly) is all over the AM band.
In Cuba, they have many transmitters.
I had a chart of all of them that I got off the internet
somewhere. Because of my vision problems, I have not
been able to find it. Here in Connecticut, I have heard them
on 570, 860, and 1010 khz and on other AM frequencies
that I can’t remember. There are something like 20 or 30
transmitters operating from 1 kW to 20 kW.
So maybe this is what you guys are talking about.
My AM BCB DX receiver is a Sony 2010, but I have heard
the 570 kHz signal on all kinds of receivers. I have a very
simple 2 tube radio, and I have heard it on that. Sometimes
the 570 transmitter dominates the channel and is over
WMCA in New York and whatever else is there.
Hope this is of some help.
Best wishes to everybody.
Radio Reloj
I just googled “Radio Reloj frequencies.”
I found a lot of conflicting information. I did
find a reference from the National Radio Club
(An AM broadcast band DXing club that has
been going strong since 1933.)
There was a note from the year 2004 where a
DXer in Tennessee heard Radio Reloj on 600 kHz.
He noted that usually it was not there. He
said that a 150 kW station in Cuba usually dominated
the channel.
We don’t know the directional patterns of any of these
stations. So maybe the mystery signal on 600 kHz is
Radio Reloj, and again – maybe it isn’t.
Thanks guys!
Radio Reloj
Hi Rock:
I just listened to your recording on 600 kHz and
it sounds like the same thing I hear so often
on 570. So, who knows?
Thanks for all the input
This has been a lot of fun and very informative.
I have been using slide rule analog radio’s for a long time.
Maybe i am off a little bit?
Looks like i need to get another digital shortwave radio one of these days, tuning around on analog radio’s is a little tricky and not all of the dials are accurate. So maybe i have been listening to Radio Reloj on 570 khz instead of 600 or 603 khz?
At any rate, looks like this mystery is solved and again i thank you guys for helping me with this crazy quest.
By the way,
I have switched my broadcast station, usually playing music and talk shows to a DX beacon! The Talking House is great for setting up a cheap and easy beacon.
Since the TH has a digital recorder built-in to it I have used a web page that translates text into morse code, recorded the output with Audacity. Then fed that into the TH2 along with a voice id.
Now the message repeats itself and hopefully someone with a DX station and great conditions will copy the beacon here in Ky.
I will run this beacon all through May and maybe June as well.